considering the amount of time it took to actually hack the ps3 initially, i wouldn't label it as "epic fail", but if this does lead to being able to sign ps3 games, that would be quite amazing

Awesome. So in a nutshell, we can sign our own code, correct?

Looks like the last days of the dongle are upon us. Men, tonight we celebrate!

Hardly an epic fail, but whatever.

This could end well for 'Brewers, but potentially not so well for online players or developers. If the PS3 ends up in the same place as the PSP, it'll be a massive shame.

Hardly a problem.

They might might just fix it in an upcomming FW.

Of course it's dumb (well, it's Sony, who expected else) to do things like that, but they'll fix it.

"Nou, they can't, existing games need to be able to still run" some will now shout, but I say: "They'll just release patches to all games with the new encryption, so they WILL continue to run".

To be fair, they only started looking at the PS3 after Sony removed OtherOS. I think the sole reason it took so long to hack stems from a lack of interest. When OtherOS was still around, there wasn't nearly as much motivation.

"Epic fail"? That's why it took 5 years to crack? Interest or lack thereof, doesn't matter. Sony can still brag they kept their console hack free for a long long time, more than most new consoles do.

On the other hand, this is good news and I can't wait to see what comes next.

Other than being an absolute logistical nightmare, what about people that don't have their PS3 connected to the internet?

I'll stick with online play with PSN access, thanks.

"There is absolutely no doubt in our mind that the PS3 lasted as much as it did due to OtherOS. The security really is terribly broken."

Quote from fail0verflow: http://twitter.com/#!/fail0verflow/status/20283862579945472

Heard about this.

Gonna grab me some popcorn and a USB flash drive. Let's see where this goes.

Somehow I doubt Sony will care and/or think about them, but I see your point.

Also this only accounts for BD games once the PS3 has been updated to the new FW - if you don't have internet on your PS3 it's unlikely you'll apply the most recent update for quite some time, so at least those people are save for some time.... until they finally get screwed like the OtherOS - don't forget, it's Sony we're talking about.

:D quote from kitty twitter: "Lesson learned, Sony? Don't scrap features people like and want! (and you advertised, btw)

I highly doubt this would happen, if you're talking about pirating, then probably not. Not many people will download 20GB+ games, I think this would be great for homebrew developers. I'm looking forward to the customization, theme wise anyways.

People download 10 gb bd rips, why not 20 gb game rips?

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/random_number.png

Monroe called it.

I would. I download a xbox game which is 7GB in 3 hours, so in about 8 hours I can have a PS3 game for free. You can start the download before you go to bed and it will be done when you wake up. 20GB is not that much if you have a decent download connection.

Or you could do it the old fashioned way, sharing discs among friends.

Same.

This is awesome news, if you can do this without losing PSN access I will be all over it. The PS3 couldn't possibly go the same way as the PSP did...

Anyway, I thought c4eva was working on a firmware for PS3 BD drives like the ixtreme firmwares for 360 drives...

All I want is NFS:HP to work and I will be all set with my ps3 :(.

i've already heard people complain because their 1TB HDD's are full, i don't think time matters for many people, as long as it's free

Lol you summed it up damn well. My 1TB drive has filled up on several occasions; at least 400GB of it is a combination of PSP ISOs, DS Roms, PS2 ISOs, Wii ISOs and 360 ISOs.

Though usually it gets filled by the flipping massive files my capture card generates...

Well yea, never thought about decent connections. I only get 60GB bandwidth a month, so one game would kill that.

OK, so if SONY did do this...

Update fIrmware

Insert game to get update

Game wont boot, so therefore, you can't update, therefore you can't boot, therefore you can't update, therefore you can't boot.

They could add an "update" option in the /\ menu (if there isn't already, there is on the PSP) so that chain'o'desaster could easiely be broken ;)

the simple answer is that the moment the hackers implement a tool to auto-sign packages because of this flaw(or possible in response that this flaw was discovered) to run on the ps3, sony has only 1 choice, and this is it...

All in all, I expect the 100 people who used OtherOS to be really happy about this. Too bad they never realized OtherOS was crappy and they'd be better running Linux on a PC, the real "homebrew" platform.

On the other hand this will pretty much mean the death of online gaming on the PS3, just like the PSP before it. Too bad because I was really starting to get into it.

It's not the fact that OtherOS was good or not, it's the fact that it was a promised feature, a feature of which we paid for, which they took unwillingly.

I would have stripped OtherOS completely also if some dood said he just hacked the system I developed using that same feature, a feature that almost no one used and was utter crap. It's a no brainer actually.

Again, not the point. Although I never intended on using it, I always saw it as a plus over the 360, and I imagine that's pretty similar to most pisses off people out there now.

And I still fail to understand the logic behind this move... It's like, you take away my toy so I break it apart...

Think of it this way. You're a hacker/dev. You've been enjoying using Linux to access the power of the cell processor. But they remove it from the new revision of the hardware. Fair enough... But what if you need a new ps3?

Then they remove it from your existing hardware. Stopping you from playing games online and using Linux... Sony makes it clear that you have to choose which isn't good enough.

So, you gain interest in hacking it for it's full potential. So you work on finding weaknesses in the security to allow you to get more access to the hardware, and full custom software support.

If you believe this is "breaking" the Playstation 3 you are mistaken. It is simply using it for it's full potential.

I can understand that a little better now but I thought the Hypervisor locked you OUT of using the PS3 full power in OtherOS mode... Wasn't THAT the reason behind OtherOS sucking ass in the first place?

If the 360 online is still going strong long after the 360 got hacked, what makes ps3 any different?

Yeah, full of cheaters. But I wasn't referring to the 360 but rather how CWCheat and other similar apps completely destroyed online gaming on the PSP.

OtherOS was only limited in the sense that access to the RSX was restricted. For pure computational tasks on the CPU it can give even some modern quad cores a run for a their money, which is why the USAF bought thousands of PS3s and set them up in a cluster configuration, along with several other institutions.

Although, at one point, it was possible to access RSX from OtherOS. Then Sony added more restrictions to completely block access to it with a later firmware for unknown reasons, and this was BEFORE any hacking began.

If Sony was so paranoid about OtherOS, it makes you wonder why they even included it in the first place. My only guess is that when the PS3 first launched they were grasping at straws to generate hype over their nearest competitor, as the $599 asking price was a tough sell for lots of people. Advertising that it had Linux support generated more publicity and won them support from enthusiasts. It's a shame the goodwill was short-lived.

the 360 being hacked generally requires the modding of the dvd drive, of which microsoft has shown in the past can eventually find a way to detect and ban for(rather or not the latest lt fw's are truely undectable, only time well tell), or getting your hands on a j-tag'd system, which last i checked was also very risky to use online, but the ps3, with this discovery, pretty much means nothing but having a regular old usb drive is needed to hack your ps3, it'll bring it down to the level of ease it takes to hack a psp now, or any modern cell phone really

It's funny how you always clear any doubts I might have about everything xD

Oh, wow. Didn't realize that XKCD joke was in the OP, I always block flash.

Now don't I feel like an idiot. :P

Uhh I hope you both realize that it really was an epic fail for IMB returning random as a constant. Bad security was bad. You cannot patch a personal signed key.

As for the time it took the PS3 to be hacked, you can thank the thief who stole secret documentation from one of Sony's employees, which was then leaked for course. I just assume these guys were the aftermath of when all of this took place. I saw a lot of work being done everywhere else, but I have never heard of these guys. My thanks goes toward Math and the creation of PS3 hacking/exploit wiki documentation instead.

HONESTLY, lets be honest here guys, its truth time: STOP FUCKING WITH CONSOLES THAT ARENT BUILT OR INTENDED FOR HOMEBREW AND JUST USE YOUR FUCKING PC.

I get it, its cool and hip and rad and sparking and shit and you can play homemade games on your console and browse the next and pirate games and etc. Awesome, we get it, we understand how gnarley that is, but stop and think about it for a second and realize that all that hard work spending trying to hack and crack shit could easily be spent non-intrusively on your computer.

Im literally sick and tired of people talking about, discussing and arguing about the homebrew scene of every single console and portable device. Its like listening to people argue about why a banana should taste like an orange - the fact is that banana is a banana, and when you try to change that it stops being what it first was.

Wether you all like it or not, people are FUCKING WITH other peoples legacy and work by trying to crack and hack consoles - Honestly, if platform holders wanted the consoles to do what hackers get them to do, they would have done it. The reason why they dont let people do that is because then the entire industry would become useless.

Wether we like it or not, a gaming console is a gaming console and a personal computer is a personal computer.

Now with all that said, my personal opinion weighs somewhere on this line: Studios need to man up a bit more and start standing up to Publisher/Platform conglomerates. Personally, if I ran a studio or worked on a project that REQUIRED it to have some sort of firmware update in order to play simply because the platform company tried to fix a security loop hole in homebrew - I wouldnt agree to that, either before or after production.The industry is being ran by corporate, and the only way studios are showing any sort of creativity is by taking a nice fat check from publishers [which, most happen to be owned by the platform holders] to let them BUY the development of their game.

You shouldve added an explicit post warning before that :p

But yeh i totally agree. The momet when piracy kicks into the ps3 scene. ps3 will die. Im all up for homebrew access and unlimited power, no rsx blocking so we can use the ps3's full potential. But when it comes to piracy? mights aswell put in some hours lol

piracy=no new games = a very bored Alex :p

What I meant Deathrow was in relation to the time frame.

Also, one of the key features of the PS3 is online multiplayer. Like Josey said, why would you sacrifice that for something a PC can execute perfectly? If you would choose to do that, it's the best part of

and pc's are extremely varied in their specs, developing homebrew on a console means that it well work on everyone's console, you don't get that with a pc, also, please stop spouting your "truth", it's an opinion not to agree if people should mess with things, not an absolute.

who is this "we", who?!, i don't agree with you, so i must be outside that collective "we" that your so awesomly associated with, that is absolute in their truth's, but seriously, no, people hack because they find it fun, do you think any of the peolpe like Sven are getting payed to do this?, no, they find it interesting, to test the limits of a system, to see what can be done, it's not "cool, or hip, or rad", it's interesting, it's fun, and what is fun to one person might not be fun to another, but that's no reason to judge them on it.

then WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU EVEN IN THIS THREAD?!, why are you posting, obviously you have ZERO interest in this, so why do you keep coming back, what's the point, again, what isn't interesting to you, is fucking awesome to some of us, and you, or "we", or whomever has no right to judge that, seriously where do u get off to come here and start spouting all your crap all over the place?

what legacy?!, the ps3 isn't some sacred thing, it's an consumer device mass produced, noone but you are holding it to something on a higher level, their is no legacy, no person is crying over this, it's a device, plain and simple, it's not a one of a kind item, noone is desicrating it, all people are doing is running their own software off of it

as well, how would the industry be useless if a company imployed ways for the average freelance developer to run code on their console?, apple itself is a prime example of what can be done when allowing average developers are given the capability to develop on their console(hell even microsoft subscribes to this theory a bit), and it's perhaps one of the most successful company's out their, so clearly the industry won't fall apart when average developers are aloud to develop on a console.

a personal computer is also a lose term, their are a bizzilion diffrent variables when dealing with a personal computer, their are almost zero diffrences when dealing with programing for a gaming console

so in short, please, if you are sick of reading this stuff, THEN STOP READING IT!

XBMC would be an awesome app to have. The PS3's a decent media player, but not having to convert everything would be sweet.

The fact that we can sign our executables should mean we're able to launch these apps straight from a clean XMB, no?

[quote="Dan, post: 202988"]What I meant Deathrow was in relation to the time frame.

Also, one of the key features of the PS3 is online multiplayer. Like Josey said, why would you sacrifice that for something a PC can execute perfectly? If you would choose to do that, it's the best part of

lmao u dumb as hell

elaborate

When I saw this post, I knew it was up for a (rather sauced) dissection...

Your opinion ≠ Truth.

A comma is a great way to separate items in a list. They can also be used in conjunction with their best bud, the Apostrophe.

Clearly you don't.

Clearly you don't. Also, who is this "we", you speak of?

Proof reading. It gets you taken seriously.

You might want to clean that up, it sounds messy.

Sickness AND tiredness? You sure you're not ill? Is your period late, you might be pregnant.

You were forced to listen?

You actually lost me there, are you saying that by using homebrew (lovely segmented juicy bits), you remove the consoles original purpose (mushy-centre) and functionality (Tasty, Bananary-goodness)?

Legacy? I'll indulge this one for a moment (but only to crush it with my mighty Penis Thor-Hammer Masculine Thighs intellect)

Kazunori Yamauchi - His "Leagacy" (Gran Turismo) has had releases on the PlayStation (pirated from here to eternity), the PlayStation 2 (Modchip? Nah, just jimmy it open with a bank card like that Arnold Schwarzenegger film), PSP (Do I have to?)

And yet GT5 sold over 5.5 million copies in twelve days. POST PSJB and PSGroove.

OtherOS.

Computer - "A computer is a programmable machine that receives input, stores and manipulates data, and provides output in a useful format."

Personal - "of or pertaining to a person, or belonging to a person in some way"

No, your personal opinion weighed in on the first line

...It would go under?

[QUOTE]or worked on a project that REQUIRED it to have some sort of firmware update in order to play simply because the platform company tried to fix a security loop hole in homebrew - I wouldnt agree to that[QUOTE]

So you're anti-homebrew AND anti-anti-homebrew. You're so cutting edge, you're making my brain bleed.

1)Game is made and tested on Debug-Units.

2)Game is sent to the console licensers, where firmware updates are added and the signing takes place

3)Game is sent to be pressed.

Your game would never see the light of day

FUCK THE SYSTE... oh, wait.

"A corporation is a formal business association with a publicly registered charter recognizing it as a separate legal entity having its own privileges, and liabilities distinct from those of its members."

Something being corporate (and therefore bad in the eyes of you and a bunch of hippies...) just means it's run by a business. So if it was a game produced by someone that wasn't a corporation, it would be homebrew...

YEAH! All these big businesses making games, what if the little guy did it, by him self. But not in a big office, but in his own home. You could call it 'Homemake'...

If people are going to have an argument over the merits of this hack then it'd be preferable that they have actual content, not just 'witty' points. Josey's post did have points, and if you want posts to be kept viewable even if inflammatory then the responses must have content as well.

so, then cut our posts, and cut his post that people have an issue with(and the part that has no merit to anything that is about this particular hack), and throw it into a thread that has been previously created to discuss such a thing, http://forums.exophase.com/showthread.php?t=21556&highlight= would probably be an appropiate thread, otherwise u can't expect people not to respond to what he's saying

The average homebrew is not going to tax any recent PC, even the cheapest prebuilts. It's not some massive variable when you have an average spec. The people with computers from 2004 aren't going to be using a homemade game, or even games at all, no matter how awesome they are.

You could tone down the drama a wee bit. Anyways presenting broad conclusions to counter other... erm broad conclusions I suppose isn't going to change anyone's mind. If you go back to what the PSP scene has driveled into then your reasoning for hacks in general is also rather poor. A lot of people do hack for the fame and to feel 'cool.' There are people who do it out of curiosity, but so long as we're discussing generalities I wouldn't put this in the majority. Android phones are a pretty large example of people rooting for donations and there's always the nice iOS drama that comes about.

If you can't handle a person's comment then lord knows how you survived on the internet for so long. People don't need to respect your interests based on them being your interests. Everyone has a right to judge and make conclusions. You're basically saying 'like my things or else!' and that's a fairly comical position to take.

The software and quality of it (online specifically) is now at risk because of this.

Apple's initial success with the iPhone largely came from their brand name and quality of the device. Freelancing did help but wasn't the sole cause. People need to have a reason to be attracted to the platform, and potential market is a large part of that.

Not really. The market for homemade games really isn't that large. You can expect people to have a certain level of hardware, and after that you're golden. Prebuilts in the past few years aren't much weaker than current consoles.

Horrible position to take. He can read, respond, and complain about whatever he wants. It's a forum.

I'm not going to start mutilating posts because people have issues with them so long as they don't break any of the rules. What can't happen is content-less posts.

first of all, adiuvo, i do love your contradictory post's=-)

secondly, i do hope that were not getting a bit too heated atm, or that i haven't crossed any line's with people(as i feel ilyace for some reason doesn't like me)

that truthfully depends on the aim of the homebrew in question, generally speaking an average homebrew game won't push a pc, but that's kindof avoiding the point, the reason i loved developing software on the psp was because i knew, what worked in my hands, was going to work on another person's psp, that their was going to be nothing else that would pop up, or give issues, or get random people complaning because of some weird error, which has nothing to do with the game in question(although, technically that can still happen anyway)

yes, my original post may have been a bit over the top, anyways, yes, people do do it for fame, but as this is an argument that has been played over many times(even in this community alone), people with the talent to pull this off probably deserve that fame, and yes, sometimes, those people do take that fame too far, as in the case of the iOS drama.

firstly, when did i say i couldn't handle his comment?, and as you say, this is a forum, where anyone can post, however, when people say things like 'i'm sick and tired of reading your guys posts about xyz subject', then you have to ask, why are you doing that?, why are you forcing yourself through something you clearly don't care about, and are making so much of a point that you don't care about it, that you include such statements

piracy has been around pretty much as long as games have been around, people want things for free, that's not ganna change, but at the same time, we've seen that piracy has not stopped games from progressively getting better and better, as WillyVWade pointed out, in 12 days GT5 sold over 5.5 million copy's, post JB's/downgrades being released, it's no diffrent than psp games being released that are still very high quality, while piracy does make an impact, it has clearly yet to make an impact to stop company's from getting the software sales to continue developing games.

yes, having the brand name apple did defiantly help in sales, but sony+microsoft both have pretty well known brand name's, them taking a similar approach would most likly be met with equal success, as well as still leave room for big name contenders.

this is similar to my point above, the fact is, computers still have a ton more variables to deal with, than if you develop on a set, always the same, device.

no different than how i complain however i want=-)

edit:

perhaps we have a misunderstanding of which each of us thought was pertaining to the hack in question, i'm pretty much refering to everything above "my personal opinion", which imo is clearly is directed at homebrew/hacking/developing on consoles in general, and not directed at this article itself

i think me saying "what people have an issue with" was a bad choice of words, i should have said, "what isn't pertaining to this article directly", which is what you are after

There is no fucking way the PS3 will die from this exploit... Even if Custom Firmware is made and it's impossible to ban people, the PS3 will be fine.

The 360 is absolutely fine, and last year they banned almost a million consoles from online (and I know the 360 is harder to hack, which probably stops some people) but not everyone knows of this hack... The VAST majority of people who own PS3s probably only play them and don't bother looking up how to mod them online...

What I hope comes from this exploit is a PSP-like custom firmware. So you can put game ISOs on your internal HDD, and run them and homebrew (from internal HDD or memory stick) through the Game section of the XMB.

Ill handle that first statement later however the "truth" I stated is merely a talking point, not a fact which of course would not be opinion. Read people's post with the tone of the person, not your own. Youll sound less aggressive that way.

You absolutely are outside the collective we - the "We" that I am a part of doesnt use 800 commas in one sentence. "We" is the collective of people who dont give a crap which you cover at the end of your post. We, are the people who sit on the sidelines and watch people's mindless banter about what an International Fortune 500 company should do with their products. Whos judging anyone in my previous post? Im not aying anyone is a loser or waste of time. Youre infering that my statements are aggressive when really they are just passive from a different point of view from your own.

Youre the one who got defensive about my having an alternate opinion to which you then tried to make me feel bad for - so, whos the one being judgemental? That would be you - so fuck off, youre wasting my time (this is me judging you)

Because I reserve my right to have an opinion on anything I want. You cant tell me every single post youve ever made on this forum was made in a moment of complete interest. Communication is, albeit interesting or not, how people learn that their own opinions arent the only call.

Oh, I dont know. The legacy of the designers maybe? The people who thought up the entire concept of the device? Obviously, Sony knows what they are doing in some respect to how they want to handle their products. You see to be crying over this, to be honest. All I did was take the opposite side of the coin in the argument and you took the defensive it seems. Im just trying to make a point for platform holders and studios since they obvious can do so. It wouldnt exactly be fair if the entire argument was one sided would it?

Were not exactly JUST talking about indie devs having more power here. Were talking about EVERYTHING that encompanies the homebrew scene that we all know when it comes to electronics. For the record, if Apple were so perfect in how they handle development then why is there a homebrew/hacking/cracking/etc scene for Apple products as well? You cant justify a great product because they offer a bit more when under the cover people are just as frantic to make the device different.

This is what I understand - I understand the appeal of it all. It IS hip and cool, making your little life device into something your own. If it wasnt cool and fun and sweet then nobody would do it obviously. If everyone thought being abstinent, sober and nerdy was cool then the majority would be that way. This is the same thing about hacking and modding, its cool to people, I refuse to believe the monotonous hours spend cracking and hacking code fucking or whatever the hell people do is done solely on the idea of "fun". These people are looking for fame and attention and know that not anyone can do these things.

Ah right, I understand now. So, youre telling me that breaking a legally binding EULA is because its easier? If not please explain what you mean then because thats what Im hearing

I'm surprised there are people against these developments and homebrew on consoles, on this website! I thought many of us we were from the core of QJ.NET? Exophase itself is built more on the homebrew/hacking side of things than gaming in general isn't it?

Most are encouraging of homebrew in general, it's the piracy that really splits the majority here.

Agreed. I used to be quite more vocal about it in the past too xD But I believe everyone supports homebrew here, but people like me and Josey really hate the downsides it brings.

It seems this is developing more and more: http://geohot.com

---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------

http://twitter.com/#!/Mathieulh/status/21669098735796224

Woow. Ps3 scene is blowing up!!!

Geohot on the other side? That could lead to some lulz.

I have a few questions, I'm on the latest firmware is this what is being exploited? Or will there be a downgrade? One more, my PS3 refuses to play games, it'll freeze or just won't load, will this lead to back-up games on the HDD like xbox? I refuse to pay $250.

1. theoretically, this should lead to no exploits, since everything would be signed, their's no need for an exploit

2. not needed

3. knowing people....yes, eventually

of course sony won't just let this slide by, so i'm sure it'll be stopped in 3.60 somehow(either with methods talked about earliar in this thread, or ?)

So it would be safe not to upgrade to any firmware coming out soon?

It's not an exploit: If user made application can be signed using the keys, they can launch it from any firmware - These lead the PS3 to believe that the applications are verified by Sony.

yea, i'd wait for people to say if it's safe or not before doing any upgrades in the future, at least if u don't want to buy a new ps3 to play ur games

Just posted this in the PSPGo downgrader thread too, but it deserves a mention here moreso. Mathieulh has managed to find the PSP keys as a result of this hack. PSP EBOOT.PBPs can now be signed. Almost brings a tear to the eye! I remember back in the day how signing EBOOTs were impossible and how we would talk about running unsigned code on our PSPs! This is like the second Pandora's battery in a way, all PSPs are now hackable and if it's like the PS3 this is unpatchable.

a thread for this has already been created: http://forums.exophase.com/showthread.php?t=22286

Yay for NFS and GT5 and other games finally working now. Time to dust off the ps3 again.

I'm curious, for the PSP access, I keep seeing people say CFW is not needed, just wondering how plugins, vsh menu and recovery mode would work?

yes, let's all praise these twits and "LOL" at sony for "failing" because the only reason they figured anything out was because some asshole stole sony's official SDK and sold it off.

Ouch, someone seems a bit bitter.

Sony employee maybe?

Fixed.

@ Josey:

yes, because everyone who doesn't see the need to run a shitty OS on a device that was specifically designed for *gaming* is automatically a sony employee...

these people really need to direct their pent up sexual frustrations elsewhere.

I'd not call Linux shitty if I were you.

There is still a fail in the coding part itself.

Hahahaha.

Sounds about right to me. Youre extremely aggressive on other members who agree with you sir - I like your style.

So what department of Sony did you work? Marketing? R and D?